Fuzzy Thinking

A friend and I have ventured out into the world called Podcasting. We really don’t know where this project will lead, but for now, we are reviewing books.

The first podcast is discussing Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis.

You can find the new blog (and RSS feeds) at http://TwoMiddleAgedPastors.blogspot.com. Drop us a line to let us know what you think!

Churches seeking marketing-savvy breed of pastor - Yahoo! News

My friend Jeff sent me an email with this link. It is a pretty good article… Here are (a few) of my thoughts:

I was struck by this quote:

“Nearly every pastor is a salesman or a marketer of one kind or another because … we have a philosophy to sell,” he says. “The best marketers and best salesmen will have more converts, will have more people, will take in more money…. Evangelicals are marketers because they’re really passionate about their product.”

So, what we are selling is a certain “philosophy” that, I guess, we believe is better than the other philosphies. I guess the end always justifies the means because after all, isn’t it all about having more converts, people and money! I wonder which of the three are the most important

Anyway, this really says something, I believe, about where we are at as a Church. I know we UMs have issues, but I’m not sure evangelicalism is in a much better boat. Yes, some churches are reaching large groves of people, yet, the command was to make disciples not make converts, or people or money.

Tallahassee Democrat | 08/20/2005 | Hope renewed

Yes, there is (or there can be) hope for us UMs, but it will take courage. It will take courage for us to look around at the “new situation” we find ourselves in. It will take courage to ask difficult questions, including “What kind of church (or denomination) do we want to be? It will take courage to reach out people we don’t know in a land we are unsure of (even though we have been living here a very long time.

I found this newspaper article about a church that, it sounds like, is vernturing out with courage. The article is here (unless the newspaper takes off the link at some point). It is about New Life UMC in Florida. Because of (it sounds like) a nasty situation, it is forced to basically start fresh, yet, there are issues that an established church has that a new start doesn’t.

It is a hopeful article and I pray that you too find hope in it.

I see that Eugene Peterson has been credited with saying that if the church is dying in any way it’s dying from lack of imagination.

I’ve seen at least three churches in my general area have “Try our Sundays, they are better than [Name of Ice Cream place].” Based on the above, I guess I can agree with Peterson. Why is it that we (as the church) come up with new, interesting and creative things…instead we have to copy each other (of course our love of marketing helps). I’m not saying we shouldn’t work together, it just seems like many times it is just easier to copy the sign (or ministry, or program, or whatever) from the church down the street or across town than do the difficult work of prayer and imagination.

There…I’m done now…I feel better

Here’s my top 10 list on why are we dying?

I’m sure there are others….

10) Because we believe salvation is within our walls.
9) Because we are so busy with our own “stuff”
8) Because we have no idea what we are doing and we stopped being a long time ago.
7) Because we don’t really understand (or care to understand) what is going on with the people around us.
6) Because ministry is what is done to us (rather than what we can do for the others)
5) Because in all our breadth, we have forgotten our depth.
4) Because we don’t know how to be neighbors to the strangers.
3) Because we like the good gig we’ve got going.
2) Because mission is somewhere out there, not somewhere right here.

and the top 1 reason on why we are dying….

1) Because we seek to not die and thus never really live.

Now…for some ramblings….

I’m a structure kind of guy. I use to be a Systems Administrator (computer) and so systems and structures facinate me. Now, I’m bringing the same thought process into the church. But recently I’ve been looking at things differently. I use to be into programs and stuff, now, I think as a chuch simplicity is what is needed.

Yet I serve a traditional church in a traditional denomination. I don’t think I can simply stop everything to implement a more simple existence. Instead, I would love to be able to work and keep what is working, yet tweak the structure some.

As I see things currently, there are basically three dimentions I would like to see: Celebration, Cell and Service. I redefine the term cell to mean any type of group that brings you community. Celebration is basically that. Celebration/worship/whatever you want to call it. Service is on hands, on going serivce to those in your community.

What I’m finding is that we have celebration (or something like celebration), we are beginning to find cell, but I believe we need to focus on service. The two Cs should empower our service to the community. Yet, what I’m finding is that between the choir, worship team, youth group, committees, Sunday School, Dance groups, kid’s ministry, there is quite a bit of service but it basically focuses on keeping the Sunday Morning celebration going, or keeping the building open.

I have a hard time telling someone that the work they do on the finance committee, or trustees, or in the choir, isn’t really service. Yet, the service that I am convinced we need is service beyond ourselves into the community.

There seems to be a catch-22 here. People are involved in service, but not in service to the community. They are already busy, perhaps so busy that choices must be made….so, how does one choose and what does one loose?

The party was great - hotdogs, hamburgers, squirt guns for the kids, dads trying to get charcoal lit, moms passing around Baby Hudson like he was a football. An interesting realization hit me about halfway through the party as I was flipping burgers. No one there with the exception of myself, Amber, and her parents were “church people”. I’m looking at these friends celebrating Jackson’s birthday and thinking to myself, “How did this happen?” Five years ago, our life revolved almost exclusively around church people. At that point in my life, I was clueless how to relate to anyone outside of that context, almost to the extent of being fearful and avoiding social situations where unchurched people would be present.

[The Mustard Seed]

Some interesting reflections. I have often wondered what would happen if ‘chuch’ didn’t take up so much time and energy. I have a friend who at one point was a pastor, now he is not. It seems like he is able to ministry in a different way now. He has been able to shed the ‘churchiness’ and continue to reach out. At one point he said that it has taken five years, but now the neighbors are beginning to open up.

There are times when I wonder what life would be like if we could create a new type of church culture. One that isn’t focused on buildings and budgets but rather living an authentic life marked by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. What would happen to our communities if church ceased being about a ‘great meeting’ once a week and became the conversations we had with those around us and the time we spent with them.

Link to the PDF file.

Here McLaren tries, to share his background and biography as he moved to emergent. Of course many might already have seen this, but I post it for those who come here from non-emergent backgrounds…

Vintage Faith: Reality Church?

Ah…I loved this post from Dan Kimball. He has 10 stages…of course, these are not ’scientific’ stages (he has a disclaimer at the end), but it is enjoyable reading and I see myself in much there.

Not sure what stage I’m at now. Perhaps around stage 5 or right before stage 6 . Anyway, I know I’m not in stage 8 because I do not plan on going to see the Dukes of Hazzard although I do watch quite a bit of TV it seems

Men do have trouble hearing women, scientists find - Yahoo! News

Wow, I don’t know how to feel about this. I find it interesting that when articles come out like this we find that men are more ’simple’ than women. Women can multitask better, they are more complex emotionally, etc. Now, the report says, their voices are even more complex.

Well, at least I have scientific evidence to backup why I don’t end up doing what my wife asks me to

“Yes, post-Protestant churches see everything as spiritual formation — everything worth doing, that is. Public worship is an exercise in group spiritual formation through rituals like the Eucharist and preaching. Fellowship is exercise in the spiritual practices of community. The success of a church isn’t measured by the numbers who attend but by the formation of people as agents of the Kingdom of God…” - Brian McLaren’s - The Last Word and the Word after That

As I read this I realized how much I agreed with it. I also realized it is how I approach ministry and ecclesiology. I am also realizing that it is different from how others “do” church. There’s the rub.

Perhaps that is why I’m so turned off by the programmatic influence of church growth formulas. It is perhaps why I am so tired by ministry conferences that continue to say the same thing in different ways hoping that pastors, starving for validation, appreciation and recognition, continue to spend $$ and (more importantly time) to travel to the conferences to learn about the next big thing (NBT) that will transform their church, their ministries and their lives.

Ah…to be able to sit back, bask in God’s glory, experience his presence and know that He is God (Psalm 46:10)

One in six Americans visiting blogs | CNET News.com

So, if you ever wondered if “blogging” was worth it, here is some information on how popular blog reading is. Blogging, I believe, is changing the landscape of how people gather information. Also, I believe, blogging will change how people think about a variety of issues.

Blog on….

Man dies after 50 hours of computer games | CNET News.com

Wow…. Talk about a man that needs a few more relationship. Not sure why I’m posting this to my blog, but I find this very sad…that someone could be able to spend that much time sitting around playing games. Also, I guess I’m not as obsessed as what I thought….

Well, I made it back from vacation. I actually added a couple of audioblog posts to my audio blog. Still messing around with that a bit.

On Sunday I went to church at Mar’s Hill in Grandville, MI. It is only about 2 hours away. I have some pictures that I might post later in the week. I also plan to post some of my reactions to the church.

I wanted to go because I have been listening to the audio of the sermons and wondered what the rest of the service was like. I also was curious about their location and their buildings. Stay tuned…